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Author Topic: Privacy  (Read 12796 times)

Offline Natja

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Re: Privacy
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2013, 05:32:50 PM »
Some of us also need to be concerned about our careers with "morality clauses."  A few of these include, but are not limited to, educators of children and medical professionals.

Ah yes, well that is culturally alien to me, we don't tend to have that sort of thing over here, in fact I find the concept quite shocking.  I despise the idea that any employer has the right to determine what is considered 'immoral'  based solely on their arbitrary ideals or beliefs.
Another good reason to be as independent from 'The Man' as possible, but I would hate to feel I have to choose between a fulfilling private life and my job, but I am privileged in that I don't have to I have no passion for any particular career that would hold that sort of restriction and I will choose my private life over a job every time.

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Re: Privacy
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2013, 06:18:25 PM »
Here, in the states especially the southern ones, it seems that many lifetime careers that are financially sound and beneficial have morality clauses.  They talk about being upstanding citizens that are examples for the community. 
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Offline Natja

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Re: Privacy
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2013, 08:29:01 PM »
Yes but who makes the rules?  If your boss was a Muslim for example, would you keep your job if it came out that you were a Polygamist but lose it if they find out that you are a Polyandrist?

Who makes the rules?  I honestly wonder how a whole country can claim to be free and yet have so many laws controlling ones behaviour?

It is nonsensical to me.

Natja
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Offline Bud

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Re: Privacy
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2013, 12:35:30 AM »
Natja,

Indeed, who does make the rules?  Furthermore, many rules are made to be broken.  Take the status of GLBT person's "rights" just in our lifetimes.  There were "rules", including in our military, that forbid this group many civil rights; protection from discrimination for employment, education, housing, freedom to congregate, freedom to walk down the street without fear of harm, injury or death and so on.  Now we are in a time and place that these "rules" are being broken down.  It is happening slowly, but it IS happening.  For those GLBT's that came before me and lost freedom, life, jobs, medical coverage, and so on, it is because of their voices that we are now at a place that gay, lesbian & TG's can leaglly get married.  AND, the movement is spreading to include insurance for same gender spouses, adoption rights, rights to serve in the military and so much more.

We are slowly seeing this with the poly movement as well.  With the social media we now have, people are more aware of poly and beginning to learn there ARE "normal" poly families and not the compounds and cults of poly people that has always been sensationalized. It is much easier to communicate and organize as a group with the growth of globalism.  I believe I will see drastic positive changes in the rights for poly people still yet in my lifetime.  We owe that to those who have been free to live out of the closet.  The ball is rolling and gaining momentum in regards to awareness of what it really means to be poly.  Granted, we have a long way to go yet, but I belive we will get there.

People are going to live and practice their beliefs no matter "who" happens to be making the rules at any given time.  Tolerance must come about first, and then acceptance, at least to a degree.  Those making the rules, the so-called majority, must rethink their rules when they are oppressing any people and those people rise up and take a stand.  This can apply to an individual or a group of people.  When people have had enough, it becomes a bit scarey that there might be a revolution of sorts...from boycotting, striking, civil disobedience, rioting, until things escalate to the point of an armed revolution.  Nothing worthwhile is ever easy, nor is it without casualties.

My answer to your question, "Who makes the rules?" is this: 

If one doesn't make his or her own rules, the rules will be made for them by someone else.

Why so many give up personal rights and freedoms is beyond me, with the exception to protect oneself or one's loved one's.  We must choose our battles, so to speak. 

None are truely free except within one's most inner being.  If a person can live true to him/herself, then that is the free person.

Best Regards Always,

Bud

Offline Natja

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Re: Privacy
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2013, 02:27:00 AM »
Thank you Bud, I agree totally, I do still find it shocking that there could be allowed so much interference into private lives in the West. I suppose as a European this sort of thing just seems very extremist to me.

I think it is so very important to be out, if you can for that very reason, those of us who are out, even if just for personal comfort,  are in place to teach and to educate, whether on a small scale in their local communities or a large scale, as in activism. It is imperative that functioning Poly people speak out or we possibly leave it to the dysfunctional (and possibly the down right shambolic) representing our lifestyles in the media.

A good example of this over here in the UK is Mick Philpott, a character who has just been convicted of the manslaughter of his six children, the utter twonk set his house on fire in a bid to frame his ex partner who used to live with them and had 5 children by him.

It was a Poly relationship and he had a lot of small scale publicity (chat shows, tabloid newspapers and such) trying to get a larger houses they had eleven kids living with them in all in a three bedroom house.  He did not work also so part of his newsworthiness came from him being considered a 'benefit scrounger' who just made lots of babies with the State paying for them.

Of course since the fire (that he set) we now know that he is near psychopathic and spent time in jail for attempting to murder (stabbing multiple times) his 17 year old girlfriend back in the late 70's.

Now thankfully the terms polygamy/polyamory were never used in his case (which is why is remained outside of the UK Poly scene) and I did not know about him until after the fire, but there has been no end to mention in the tabloids about his 'sordid' lifestyle. 

I know 'I' don't want to be associated with a person like that, positive poly people definitely need to be open now and not by undermining Poly-fi live in situations (as this was) but by emphasising that we are not all like that.

Sorry I know it is a little off topic but the Philpott case is very much in our consciousness right now.  He got life btw.

Natja
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Offline Deorccwen

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Re: Privacy
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2013, 07:42:22 AM »
Some of us also need to be concerned about our careers with "morality clauses."  A few of these include, but are not limited to, educators of children and medical professionals.
The sooner ENDA is passed, the sooner poly people will get those protections, too.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 07:47:37 AM by Deorccwen »
For everything that lives is holy, life delights in life.
William Blake (1757 - 1827)

Offline Deorccwen

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Re: Privacy
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2013, 07:52:34 AM »
When as many poly people as possible are out and loud/proud, then people like Mick Philpott will not be seen as representative of us, because there will be so many good, ethical examples of poly to contrast him with.  He would just be seen as the psychopath that he is, who could have had any relationship structure but would still be psychopathic. 
For everything that lives is holy, life delights in life.
William Blake (1757 - 1827)

Offline Natja

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Re: Privacy
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2013, 11:40:27 AM »
Well that did not take two long....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-21753195

Exactly what I feared and full of such insightful sound bites such as:

Quote
Dr Thom Brooks, who has researched polygamy and polyamory, said a lack of consent by women was one of the most significant problems.

"The two are practised very similarly and [are] almost always a relationship of one man with two or three women, with the man at its centre," said Dr Brooks, of Durham University.


Quote
Dr Brooks argues that polyamorous and polygamous relationships subordinate women.

Quote

Dr Brooks has looked at research which suggests women in polygamous marriages are at a greater risk of harmful effects, including sexual diseases and family violence.

Quote
The women can also be powerless, he argued, because they are typically less educated and lacking in employability skills.

I knew this would happen....
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Offline Deorccwen

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Re: Privacy
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2013, 03:47:35 PM »
Oh, good grief!  We really do need more high-profile polyfolk.
For everything that lives is holy, life delights in life.
William Blake (1757 - 1827)

Offline Natja

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Re: Privacy
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2013, 05:23:42 AM »
Update:

It is all kicking off on the UK Poly forums, I have been emailing the BBC and the people mentioned in that awful article.  Polytical (UK Poly activist org) have got involved.

An excellent example of people willing to come out and push their case....privacy be damned!!!! ;)

Natja
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Re: Privacy
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2013, 01:58:17 PM »
I understand.  This same thing happened here in the States with Tom Greene and Warren Jeffs.  Sigh.  I sure wish we were at a place were we could be open. 
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Offline Natja

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Re: Privacy
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2013, 04:35:24 PM »
I know, we just have to look towards a more positive future :)
One positive thing that has come out of this news story is that it has mobilised the Poly community in the UK like no other. I have had many good conversations with people I don't usually speak to and it has reminded me of how important community is.

N
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Re: Privacy
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2013, 08:03:05 PM »
I agree community is important and even helpful. 

I had a dialogue with some of my colleagues the other day after we spoke about the morality clause here online.  Most of them feel the morality clause here is ridiculous.  Plus, they all ask the same questions: "Who sets the moral standard?:, "What is the moral standard?", and "How will we know if or when we have broken it?"  It seems somewhat scary to us. 
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Offline Natja

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Re: Privacy
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2013, 06:21:58 AM »
Yes, it is very scary, I wonder if there is any possibility of the legalities of those kind of clauses being challenged in the court?

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Re: Privacy
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2013, 06:12:22 PM »
I know recently of two such cases that were challenged in court by two different school teachers who were fired due to a morality clause.  Both incidences for which they were fired occurred before they ever became  teachers.  One female teacher had been a porn star before becoming a teacher, but once she became a teacher, she no longer worked as a porn star.  The other female teacher had been a stripper before being a teacher, but no longer stripped once becoming a teacher.  Both of these women were fired due to their former professions.  They both took their individual cases to court, and they both lost.  I tend to believe that each of these cases will be moving up in the court system.  Only time will tell.
Reaching others with the polymindset more and more everyday!

 


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